Sign up to receive exclusive monthly wealthtech insights and interviews from our Chief Growth Officer, Jack Sharry. SIGN UP NOW
wealthtech on deck podcast - Bill Capuzzi

Making Investing Simple and Accessible with Bill Capuzzi

Investing is not an exclusive club for the affluent but a pathway open to all, regardless of age or economic background. As an industry, the responsibility lies not only in managing portfolios but also in educating, simplifying, and making investing accessible to all.

In this episode, Jack talks with Bill Capuzzi, CEO of Apex Fintech Solutions and Partner at PEAK6 Investments. Bill has been in trading, clearing, custody, and the finance industry for years. He is proud to run a company that offers digital clearing and custody solutions to fintech disrupters, global banks, RIAs and other advisory firms, online trading platforms, community banks, and credit unions. Bill has been leading Apex in revolutionizing the industry and making investing accessible to everyone.

Bill talks with Jack about how Apex is disrupting wealth management technology. He emphasizes the company’s mission to help everyone invest in their future. Bill also speaks about the convergence of digital and human advice, the importance of lowering barriers to entry in the advisory world, and the role of workplace solutions in transforming the industry.

What Bill has to say

“As an industry, we need to do a better job of educating people, especially those who don’t have a lot of money.”

– Bill Capuzzi, CEO, Apex Fintech Solutions

Read the full transcript

Jack Sharry: Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining us on this week’s edition of WealthTech on deck. Our weekly podcast focuses on the future of financial advice, and specifically on the confluence of digital and human advice. Now two and a half years old, WealthTech on Deck has far exceeded our expectations as we’ve had nearly 50,000 listeners and more than 30,000 downloads. We often ask ourselves, “How did this happen?” Here’s what we’ve come up with so far. We talk to the best and brightest in our industry. We especially enjoy talking to people that are disruptive. We examine what they’re doing and how they’re running their businesses to make for better advisor and consumer experiences where all investors, advisors, and firms enjoy better financial outcomes, and greater satisfaction and peace of mind. The formula seems to work, we all learn from each other. I’m especially excited to have today’s guest, Bill Capuzzi, CEO of Apex Fintech Solutions, who is every bit the disrupter. And we’ve just been chatting as we’ve gotten ready here, and a wonderful guy to talk to you about all sorts of stuff. So Bill has made incredible advances with Apex which he will discuss with us today. More important, I love his approach and thinking as he looks to change the world. Bill, welcome to WealthTech on Deck.

Bill Capuzzi: Jack, thanks so much for having me. Good to see you.

Jack Sharry: Good to have you. So, Bill in preparing for our conversation I went to your LinkedIn page and just love how you introduce yourself. For our listeners, I highly recommend you check it out, Bill’s about section on LinkedIn. Here’s a little bit of what Bill wrote. “Apex offers digital clearing and custody solutions to FinTech disruptors, global banks, RIAs, and other advisory firms, online trading platforms, community banks, and credit unions. But here’s what I’d really like you to know about me, when I boot up my laptop every morning, I come to work to change the world.” Bill, tell us about Apex and your operating mindset. I love it.

Bill Capuzzi: Yeah. So again, like I said, thanks for having me. And, yeah, I mean that, what I’ve written about changing the world. So we started the company 12 years ago, and the purpose of Apex, back 12 years ago, and the purpose of Apex today are the same, which is help every person on the planet invest in their future. Right, we think about 12 years ago, where our industry was, and then kind of fast forward to today, and the place that Apex is sat, pretty proud of, of what we’ve done. Right. And we have a long way to go. But you think about 12 years ago, you know, there was no such thing as zero commission, there was no such thing as fractional share trading, there was no such thing as fractional fixed income trading, which we just launched earlier this year, you know, the average account size was much higher, it was sort of something for more rich people than it was for the everyday human. And, you know, when you think about around the world, okay, so we’re, you know, notching over 50% now, which is good, but when you get into some of the other countries, you know, let’s just take India, it’s still in the single digits, 5% of the folks in India have an investment account. And so while I’m really proud, we’ve I think we’ve sort of stuck to what we said we were going to try and accomplish 12 years ago, we still have a long way to go when we think globally. And so again, I continue to get up every morning, kind of jump out of bed ready to sort of take on the world.

Jack Sharry: So we’ll get into more about Apex in a little bit, but I’m curious, how do you… what’s your backstory leading up to Apex? How did this all….

Bill Capuzzi: Yeah, I’d love to say there was a sort of like, this master plan when I was in my 20s that I was gonna be sitting in this seat today. I had every sort of expectation, become a doctor like that, that sort of drive to help humankind and change the world. I just looked at it through the lens of like, okay, I can become a doctor and help one person at a time. Now, for a whole bunch of reasons that didn’t, didn’t happen, largely because I grew up, you know, we didn’t have the financial means. And the notion of taking on some medical school after a whole bunch of debt from undergrad was just overwhelming. So I came out of undergrad, I took a job, I had a degree in environmental science, and I became a scientist. Scientists don’t make a lot of money. I was able to pay the bills, keep the debt, sort of just pay the minimums but I certainly wasn’t advancing life. And so I left that and I just ran into an opportunity through a college roommate’s dad who worked at DLJ, a firm, you know, a long time ago, and had no aspirations of getting into finance, but there I was. Someone offered me a big job with lots of money and I took it, right. And it was, it was fortuitous, right, because I think fast forward to today, you know started at DLJ in their MBA program. And I ended up getting placed at Pershing. If you remember back those times DLJowned Pershing, which was sort of unusual. It ended up DLJ got acquired by Credit Suisse. Credit Suisse then sold Pershing to the Bank of New York, which is where it is today. And I follow that path along those, those years and connect the dots between the sort of science and the plumbing side of it. It actually was a really great fit for me personally, which is, you know, got into Pershing and the back end of our industry, it is broken. Right, I think of it as sort of an inchworm. Right, the front of the inchworm takes that big step forward. And we kind of drag the back of this industry along, right. I think when you kind of fast forward 23, it’s really apparent, right? We’re still settling trades, the best we can do is go to T+1, right? And we’re not even there yet. Right? As an industry, right? But think about that, we’re still going to have a batch where things that the process overnight. And then think about that versus the I don’t know about you, Jack, but the, you know, three, four, or five packages that show up here from Amazon daily at my house, it’s sort of incongruent to the way the rest of our world works. And so I’ve sort of made it a lifelong mission, to sort of focus on the back end of the inchworm.

Jack Sharry: Yeah, yeah. And how did that experience, Pershing and all, how did that turn into Apex? Tell us a little bit about that transition.

Bill Capuzzi: Yeah. So I was at Pershing. Amazing company, amazing people, lots of great friends I still have there. I left there in 2005 to help found a company in New York City, again, trying to disrupt sort of the front office side where we built a company called Convergex. And the purpose was to take technology and trading and sort of put them together. So we built really sophisticated algorithms. We acquired a company called Eze Castle, put those things together. And the focus was how do you take trading technology and software. Eze Castle was a, was a platform largely for hedge funds, and connect the dots. Really successful company. But I kept sort of going back to that… back into the inchworm. Right, the plumbing part of it. And I had an opportunity in 2014 into 15, there was a failing company called Penson that ran into some issues. It was a public company, it was a clearing firm, it was a custodian. It got acquired by a firm out of Chicago called PEAK6, I stepped in to try and acquire those assets, wasn’t successful in acquiring them into Convergex. But the founders of PEAK6 convinced me to come across as a partner in PEAK6 and and create this, you know, what is Apex today. So yeah, it’s and I tell you, if my wife was sitting next to me, I promised her, Jack, I’d do this for two years, and then I’d find something else because the original job was was in Dallas, Texas. I live in Princeton, New Jersey, Montgomery, New Jersey, and that commute was not for the faint of heart. And my family wasn’t moving. But here I am, 12 years later, and I’ll tell you, it’s, it’s been an amazing journey. Right, as a company in terms of what we’ve, what we’ve done to change our industry.

Jack Sharry: That’s great. Why don’t you take our audience through what Apex does? I think that we read about you all the time, and you keep making advances, you keep disrupting, maybe a little bit about who you serve, in terms…

Bill Capuzzi: Yeah.

Jack Sharry: Of potential firms and advisors and all that.

Bill Capuzzi: Yeah, sure. So think of Apex as a, as a platform. Shopify, right. Intel. And platform kind of manifests itself in two ways. One is that clearing custody platform. We’ll talk more about that. The other side of Apex is just as SaaS, right, is offering software as a service, cost basis tax reporting and order management system. ACATS. Taking components of that platform and offering just a software to the industry. We sort of have this maniacal focus on retail investing though. Right, so really not focused on institutional. You know, I talked before about my background around hedge funds and long onlys, we don’t really too much of that at all. It’s really focused on fintech. And so you go back to the days of when the company started, the original tenant was, you know, “How do we lean into these disruptors?” Alright, so you go back to the Betterments, the Wealthfronts, Motif, that name rings a bell?

Jack Sharry: Sure, sure.

Bill Capuzzi: Scottrade, then it was Robin Hood. And then if you fast forward today, it’s Stash and SoFi and Webull and eToro. It really was focused on how do we lower the barriers to entry? Let’s go back to the purpose I talked about in the beginning. How do we make it such that account opening is in seconds, the funding is immediate. The trading is amazing, in terms of the ergonomics, and as much as possible, make it real time. And so the early sort of versions of Apex and our clients, the, the partnership was largely through this, was through a phone.

Jack Sharry: Yeah.

Bill Capuzzi: Right. Our clients took our APIs, they plugged them into their platform, and boom, open accounts. You can only do that if you’re incredibly efficient in terms of the platform. Fast forward to today, over the last number of years is we’ve leaned much harder into the advisory world. And the notion there, Jack, is okay, if we can take this and really revolutionize this world of fintech, alright, let’s take that sort of show on the road, apply it to this old stodgy, boring advisory world and help lower the barriers there, help increase the TAM. It’s always amazing to me when I talk to leaders at advisory firms, right, you think about how many people on this planet can write a check for a million dollars and hand it to an advisor. Right. And the entire advisory world is kind of focused on that really tiny segment. And we think about all the people that have $100,000 to invest, right? It’s an incredibly large TAM. And because the infrastructure can’t support $100,000, those people are just kind of left until they actually grow up and have real money. And I would tell you, it’s really interesting to sit in my seat because I think the fintech firms out there are building solutions. So that when that person that has $100,000 is ready for real support, they’re not going to go to the advisor, like has historically happened, they’re going to stay with with the SoFi or the Stash.

Jack Sharry: Sure.

Bill Capuzzi: And so this side, the right side, the advisor really needs to kind of flex down and start building a practice that touches those people, either younger and/or smaller accounts. And so that, that’s kind of a cool place for Apex to step in and take on the Fidelitys and the Schwabs of the world.

Jack Sharry: Gotcha. So talk a little more about that in terms of, clearly the bulk of asset flows these days go toward advisory accounts, and there has been progress in terms of reducing the minimum account size that a lot of these, certainly at the big firms like the warehouses, and others. How’s that coming along? Where do you see opportunity? Where do you see that going in terms of advisory? It’s clearly… it’s seemed and the the broader topic of models just moving toward efficient execution of the various models that are out there.

Bill Capuzzi: Yeah, I’d say two things. One is, it was at Tiburon, not that long ago. And and we’re…. Chip was talking about the average growth within a, you know, average advisor is about two, two and a half percent growth on the organic side. And there’s so much focus on inorganic, right, acquiring firms. Right. But yet, there’s this massive opportunity. I mean, 2.4%, it’s really tough to survive. Right, if there’s outflows, right, people are starting the year negative, right, in terms of outflows. And when you think about these firms that have a minimum $500,000, like there’s a massive opportunity for them to expand their TAM, take that practice that they have, take the brand that they have, take the experience that they have, and apply it to, you know, this cohort of mass affluent. And you know, the challenge they have is their platform their… they sit on top of Schwab or Fidelity or Pershing and the infrastructure is such that they can’t make that profitable. And the fun conversations that we’re having is okay, you can lean into Apex, you know, our average account size is in the five figures at Apex. We have roughly 125-130 billion in assets today. We have more accounts on our books and then Pershing but the average account size is a lot smaller. And we can make it profitable. Right? And so this notion of, I’ll call it a hybrid. People I hate the term robo. I don’t think that’s the solution. But I think there is a solution for these advisors to say, hey, look, we’re gonna, we’re gonna create a hybrid, where it’s going to, we’re going to take the greats, you know, the great services, the great products that we have, scale them down, have a lot of electronic components to it in terms of the account opening and the funding and get the NIGO rate down, have portfolios that are curated for that cohort, and then have an individual, Jack the advisor, touch base with those people on a consistent basis, right, every quarter, and really lean in when there’s life events. Someone has a baby, someone needs college, setup for college. And so there is a model out there and that’s, that’s the place we’re really kind of leaning in. I think the last thing you said about sort of the portfolios, you know, we pioneered fractional shares in equities. We just launched fractional shares in fixed income. And I’ll connect the dots back to that smaller account. You know, one of the problems with direct indexing is that if you’re working in whole shares, the models kind of break if you start, including smaller accounts. And so one of the places that have been a lot of fun is to, is to leverage the fractional share work that we did to allow these firms to scale some of their portfolios for smaller accounts. I’ll tell you this, Jack. So I’ve gone to Tiburon conferences, and you can imagine, I think this is year seven for me. In the first years I was going to Tiburon, this FinTech and this notion of Robin Hood, and you know, it’s a fad. And the neat part validating for me is to sit in those conferences today or this, you know, I was just there, whatever it was a couple of months ago. And Chip’s comment in his, in his keynote, you know, one of the comments he made, which I totally resonates with me is that those firms are adding advisory capabilities. And if you think they’re just going to sit in a little box and be sort of this small account, sort of picking stock with confetti, you’re sadly mistaken. Right? And that goes back to what I said before, which is that left hand side, those fintechs are smart, right? And what in using Apex as their, their sort of partner.

Jack Sharry: Sure.

Bill Capuzzi: Really kind of moving from left to right. And what you know, the premise, which isn’t crazy is to say, okay, all these accounts, the 25 million accounts on Apex as books today, stay with those firms, and evolve as they grow. Versus the old days, it was like, okay, when you finally get real money, Jack…

Jack Sharry: Yeah.

Bill Capuzzi: You’re going to introduce me to your dad’s advisor. Like that notion, I think, I don’t think it’s gonna break in all cases, wouldn’t sit here and say it’s, you know, that’s it’s outdated. But I certainly think there’s gonna be a lot more options for that next generation.

Jack Sharry: Yeah. And that’s the thing I wanted to highlight about what Chip has been talking about, those little accounts turn into big accounts. And he uses Schwab as the prime example is, this is if you’re, I’m sure he called, probably about seven to 10 years ago, some of the big firms Merrill and Morgan Stanley, others and said, “Oh, we only want a certain minimum, we’re not interested in those small accounts. They’re more trouble than they’re worth.” Of course you’ve helped disrupt that aspect by making it efficient but be that as it may, where they’ve caught on, and Morgan Stanley is a great example of this, that they’ve gone down market, if this is… there’s such a term, it’s really not the case, but with E-trade and what they’re doing on the defined contribution side. And I want to talk to you about that, that I think it’s clearly understood that all players are here to stay, you know, the Robin Hoods or the Schwabs or the call them what you will, the Betterments, they’re here to stay there. And they’re only getting bigger and they’re becoming more of a factor as those accounts grow, as people grow older and save more money, and so on and so forth. So I think the landscape is set. Now it comes down to, and this is what I want to ask you about. We see this convergence of what I call workplace and wealth, where you’ve got people on the wealth management side, Morgan Stanley being a prime example, they’re building out a pretty robust workplace side. They’ve got, as you and I were talking earlier, they got 53% of the S&P 500. They have the stock plans of the 53% of the S&P 500. That… it’s pretty good start if you’re going to dominate something, and that’s a good place to start. And they’ve certainly done that. What’s your take on that? As the minimums have come down, as the efficiency has become more effective. Do you guys play on the, on the workplace side? Is that is that part of where you’re headed? And how does that come together? Curious about all that.

Bill Capuzzi: Yeah, Jack. So it’s funny you bring it up. It’s, it’s a giant growth factor, and a really interesting place. It’s been sleepy, dominated by Fidelity forever. And by the way, they do a great job.

Jack Sharry: Yeah.

Bill Capuzzi: For what it’s worth. The challenge is similar to what we talked about before is for the smaller employers, right? So Fidelity focuses on giant employers with people that make a lot of money. You know, to do it at scale, and to do it for firms that have 100 employees or less, it’s much trickier. And oh, by the way to do it for accounts that are pretty small. With that said, those same workplace, you know, the employers out there, they don’t understand investing, right. They end up in a situation where they have fiduciary responsibility. And they kind of shrug their shoulders and say, “I don’t know, Fidelity?” Right? That’s the way it’s historically worked. The cool part about sitting in my seat is that you get really amazing people that came from places like Fidelity, that came from places like JP Morgan, that worked in their workplace solutions and said, “Hey, there’s a better way.” Alright, and what ends up happening is, there’s a firm called Icon Savings. Laurie is a good friend, and her purpose, how do we create something B2B2C, direct to that consumer through the employer, and partner up with Apex to do so and lower the barriers to entry? Right. On top of that, what’s happening is there’s a lot of rules that are now happening at the federal level to say, “Hey, you’re obligated as an employer to offer an investing solution, or 401k, like products, to your employees.” And so yeah, there’s a massive opportunity to kind of lean in pretty hard. And it’s a place that again, I think, you know, at least for Apex, sitting in our seat as this platform, Intel Inside, it’s really easy for us to step in there with the right partners and say, “Hey, we’re gonna help lower the barriers, make it simple, and make it incredibly efficient for that to happen.”

Jack Sharry: So that begs the question, and, obviously, this is… starts to get in the realm of LifeYield and what we’re all about, but if you’re going to work on the workplace side and the wealth side, you got a tax problem, just its inherent, just different tax treatments, whether it’s qualified, non qualified. And as I think everyone understands, and part of the boon around direct indexing is, that’s a, that’s a solution for taxes. And as we know, that’s the single kind of solution. It’s a great one. But it’s not the multi account that most people have. And will have more of over time, people change jobs, I think the average is up like 12 times over the course of their career. So they’re gonna have multiple rollovers. They got taxable accounts, and they have… tend to have them all over the place. And the other thing we see, I’m sure you follow all this, that when they get toward retirement, they want to consolidate it for no other reason than administratively. It’s just easier to manage.

Bill Capuzzi: Yeah.

Jack Sharry: But effectively, that if you do it in a tax efficient way through asset location, and rebalancing, and all the ways you do it, much beyond, frankly, tax loss harvesting, that’s important, but just a piece, smaller piece, frankly. You have to do all that. And then when it comes to income, taxes play a role in how you draw down all that. So what’s your take on that? Where do you, where do you see the world going around?

Bill Capuzzi: Yeah, look, I think you’re right. I mean, let’s go back to you, you mentioned on average, people change jobs, 12 times, right? If that same person opens a 401k, or 403b, or whatever it is, each one of those firms then use the word administratively like, it’s just impossible to manage all of that. And it’s really the employers kind of that person leaves, they kind of just washed their hands. Okay, that person is gone…

Jack Sharry: Sure.

Bill Capuzzi: It’s now up to that person to kind of figure out, okay, how do I manage all this stuff? And what are my options to consolidate? And so yeah, things… One is we need to do a better job as an industry. It’s not just around this, but a lot of things, to educate, and especially those that don’t have a lot of money. I think there’s so many things focused on ultra high net worth, high net worth. Right, and they have plenty of concierge service to be able to manage this stuff. When you start getting into that, 12 jobs. 12 401ks and, you know, within those, those IRA accounts, let’s call it I don’t know, it’s $200,000. Right, across 12 accounts. Okay, how do you pull that all together? Right? How does an ACAT work? Right? Where can I consolidate it? How does that work? Today, it’s not very clear to the end investor. I think, you know, with the work that you guys are doing, the work that we’re doing in terms of the plumbing, some of the partners of Apex, there’s a lot better options than there were five years ago. Right? And I would say five years from now, it’ll continue to get better. Again, because I think you’re gonna… I’m gonna pat myself on the back. You know, firms like Apex are lowering the barriers. I think firms like our clients, the Stashes the SoFis, the you know, the Webulls are doing a really good job educating the end customer on the front office side. So fast forward five years, I think there’s going to be more and more choice. Right, one. And two is I think we’re going to do a better job as an industry educating people on how they can pull that stuff together.

Jack Sharry: Yeah, it’s in fact, I’m, as you and I are talking, I’ve just been working on an article a year ago, I wrote an article, “Who Will Be the Amazon of Financial Advice?” for FA mag, I write a monthly column there. And we had nearly 30,000 people that read the article. One of the most popular articles they’ve had. And the firms I picked were Morgan Stanley, Edward Jones, Franklin Templeton, and who am I missing? There’s one more… Empower. And a lot of it was to be provocative, like, why didn’t you choose Fidelity and Vanguard and so on. They’re dominant, that has not changed. It’s not gonna change anytime soon. But these other folks are chipping away. And I think I need to add you to my article, by the way, Apex is that breaking the barriers, breaking it, making it more accessible for more people, and then providing services. Now Vestwell is another one I’m adding this year because they’ve done such a good job of just inviting people in through the workplace to budget, to consider health savings plans, and all the stuff that they’re doing. And I looked at Reed Colley’s new company, Summit Wealth Systems.

Bill Capuzzi: Oh, yeah, yeah

Jack Sharry: Super smart. We’re doing some work with those guys. And that’s the other thing that’s happening. We’re working with a variety of firms, and I know you are as well. We’re working together, doing what we do and doing what they do. And then combining forces because this stuff’s too complicated. You can’t do it all yourself. It’s just there’s too much to it. So, anyway, it’s an exciting time. But I’d love to hear your thoughts and this kind of gets us to where you see the world going. Where do you see the world going?

Bill Capuzzi: Yeah, look, I think one of the tricky parts that you mentioned is, is how do you actually stitch this stuff together and make it work in a sort of ergonomic way and a cost effective way?

Jack Sharry: Yes.

Bill Capuzzi: It is a complicated business, we are heavily regulated. Sometimes, I feel like we’re over regulated. But, nonetheless, heavily regulated industry, number one. Number two is, I mentioned before, we started talking about an inchworm. The back of our industry, the bowels of all those big firms is really old. We’re talking about COBOL code, we’re talking about IBM mainframe. We’re talking about batch. And so you mix of heavily regulated, old, crappy tech on the back end. And that manifests itself in a really complicated structure. Right? So I don’t know if you’ve ever looked at the Michael Kitces placemat.

Jack Sharry: Oh, sure.

Bill Capuzzi: Yeah, he’s got that placemat he puts out and I sent him a note a while back, which is he should do some like, you know, fast forward movie to show like the first version that he put out to what it is today. And just like the moving parts. It’s exploded how many firms there are, that are providing some solution to this amazing industry that we have. The challenge is that the interoperability, and again, sitting in my seat, the custodian to all those platforms, the front office platform, and we just started, started there.

Jack Sharry: Sure.

Bill Capuzzi: It’s crappy. I don’t know what better word to use. It’s like files, start a DAY files. And number one. Number two is it’s expensive, right? This is why, you know, these advisors can’t support a client that has more than a million bucks… or less than a million dollars in it. And then thirdly, it’s manual, right? So the notion of eliminating all kinds of crazy, stupid friction, and then making interfaces happening on a real time basis between the front office and the middle office and the back office, and then to the you know, ultimately, to the asset management world. That is a lifelong mission of mine, sitting in my seat, but it’s a place where you know, to your original question it’s like, if we don’t get that part right, and we don’t lean in to create better interoperability, that convergence, you’re ending up with an incomplete solution. And what ends up happening then, Jack, is that we end up with these kind of stovepipes. Which is like, okay, this company buys that company, and it connects the dots and says, okay, the perfect solution is you’re going to use my portfolio construction software, my CRM, my “insert here,” right, which is kind of what the Envestnets, the Orions, right, even the Altruists, right or, you know, they’re stepping up and saying, okay, the only way I’m going to make this crazy efficient is if you just use my product, right and part of that’s about financials and okay, people want to make money by selling… cross selling different products. But it’s more about the inefficiencies in terms of that interoperability that drive that.

Jack Sharry: We sing from the same hymnal. And we’re, we’re brothers in crime, if you will, in that people like Apex, people like LifeYield are just trying to break that down, just because ultimately, that’s the thing I’m working on, right, literally, as we speak, what people want, they want better outcomes. They don’t want products, they don’t want even solutions, our words, they want to have more money in their investment portfolio. That’s what they want. And they want some peace of mind that, you know, someone knows what they’re doing, and it’s running as fit… as efficiently as possible. And there’s always this sort of persistent, consistent improvement. But anyway, I’m preaching to the choir, I think most of our audience here. The challenge is doing it, it’s hard. You know, just we have a very large firm, we work with that when we started working with them, they had 26 different trading, trading platforms. They’ve got it down to 12. But they’ll, just to give you an idea. And it’s just a huge expense. And it’s all old stuff, we were able to help them get there. But the whole point of it is it’s an inherently inefficient system. And this has been a lot of fun to talk about how we’re trying to rectify that. So with that in mind, any final pearls of wisdom as we look to wrap up in terms of what we’ve been talking about?

Bill Capuzzi: Yeah, look, Jack, I am proud of what, what I’ve accomplished, what Apex has accomplished as a company. But I firmly believe we’re at the bottom of another big step. Right, which is, let’s say fast forward five years from now the work that, that you guys are doing, the work that we’re doing. The industry should, if we do our jobs well, right, five years from now, we do this podcast again, you have now 300,000 listeners, we’ve made strides, we’ve changed the industry, right? Go back to like, my purpose is I get out of bed to change the world. It’s hard work. But the opportunities are there. And there’s so many people out there. Let’s, let’s keep sight on what’s most important is we’re helping people invest in their future, right, whether they’re young or old. There’s a ton of people out there that need us to lean in, that need us to do our jobs better than we’ve been doing. So yeah, it’s been fun, hard, but I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Jack Sharry: Really enjoyed this conversation. So there’s one, one final question. One I’d like to ask at this point in the conversation. So it’s always interesting to hear what comes out. But what’s something you do outside of work that you’re excited or passionate about that people by find interesting, or surprising?

Bill Capuzzi: So I guess I’ll give you the here and now. So there’s one consistent which I’ve been doing these triathlons for forever, and it’s sort of the peace I bring, it allows me to think. So a lot of training, I’ll, I’ll sign up for another half Ironman or an Ironman next year. And what I get out of that is, is just that alone time to think and kind of reflect and prepare for the next day. So that’s on the real personal side. The other missions in life, I have a senior in college at Tulane, who it’s now I guess, another full time job for me to help him find a job coming out. So that is something I’m helping young Ryan, and he wants to be in our industry. So I’m trying to help him, kind of guide him. And then I have a junior in college, who we talked about before that I am helping figure out how to find a college that’s a great fit for her.

Jack Sharry: A junior in high school, right?

Bill Capuzzi: Yeah, a junior in high school where she can play college athletics. So yeah, those are my three kind of second jobs or third or fourth jobs right now.

Jack Sharry: Yeah. Totally. That’s great. That’s wonderful. So Bill, this has really been a pleasure. I really enjoyed our conversation. For our audience, if you’ve enjoyed our podcast, please rate, review, subscribe, and share what we’re doing here at WealthTech on Deck. We’re available wherever you get your podcast. Bill, thanks again. This has been a lot of fun.

Bill Capuzzi: Thanks so much for having me, Jack.