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Building Your Firm’s Tech Stack with Jud and Kim Mackrill

In this episode, Jack talks with Jud and Kim Mackrill, Co-Founders and CMOs at Milemarker, Inc.

Kim and Jud Mackrill are partners in life and in business. Together, they have built careers on providing solutions in tech integration for the finance world. Before Milemarker, they helped advisors innovate through their marketing company, Mineral Interactive. After Mineral’s acquisition, Kim and Jud led the rebranding of Carson Group.

Kim, Jud, and Jack discuss harnessing the power of data, modernizing your firm’s tech stack, and the importance of client behavioral psychology in tech implementation.

What Jud has to say

“This is the path. You have to really start with empathy designed for the user, build the data model, and then deliver it because the future is far more complex.”

– Jud Mackrill, CEO, Milemarker

Read the full transcript

Jack Sharry: Welcome to WealthTech on Deck. Thanks for joining us. Each week we explore a variety of topics around wealth, tech strategies and execution. In addition to learning about what our guests are working on today, we ask them to share where they see things headed. So today we have a first, we are talking with our first business partners who are also life partners, Kim and Jud Mackrilll. So I will let them tell their story in a moment. But if you are looking for how to communicate and deliver on complex wealth, tax strategies and challenges, you want to know Kim and Jud, so welcome to you both. Thanks for joining us today.

Jud Mackrill: Thanks, Jack. Glad to be here.

Kim Mackrill: Thanks for having us, Jack.

Jack Sharry: So Kim, let’s start by talking about your backstory. And Jud’s. Please share with our audience what you two have been working on over the past many years leading up to what we’re doing right now.

Kim Mackrill: Yeah. So Jud and I actually started dating by planning things together and thinking about how to get people all in a room and have a good time. And when we were first getting married, Jud needed a job. He was graduating from college, and a friend of ours was like, Oh, I’m working at the startup, you should come and join me there. So Jud started at Orion as an employee 20 something and we got married a week later. And he would come home every day. He was an analyst there and tell me, I think they’re gonna fire me tomorrow. I have no idea what I’m doing any spreadsheets. This is outside of my wheelhouse. And I was just like, I don’t know, man, that sounds tough. And I was doing marketing and admin stuff in nonprofits. And we went down to Texas for a little while, while Jed was doing grad school. And he kept working for Orion while we were down there. And eventually they convinced him like, Hey, you should come back up. And you should run our implementation team. And so that’s what he did. And he was working really hard and loving what he was doing all around the country just in the back office of advisory firms. He would come home and tell me about it. And I was doing marketing, just for little companies that I knew then I’d been at a publicly traded company while we were in Dallas and did not want to live that life while we were having a bunch of kids. So I was just doing boutique marketing. And he would tell me about firms that were breaking away and they needed a website and I’d say okay, well send him my name. And so we kind of started working together on implementations, but from very different sides of the house. And when Orion was going through some changes, we thought I think it’s time for us to do some changing too. And we were done having kiddos and decided that we would niche down just on the financial world and just do FinTech and wealth managers and eventually had some tamps and we were running mineral interactive, we had about 12 employees, just having a great time doing marketing for them and creating products as well, we had about 87 billion in assets under management around the country and one firm in Canada, which was super great, because we got to go to Montreal and have a great time there. But we really loved what we were doing.

Jack Sharry: And we built a product, by the way, if I may. That’s where we all met. Yeah, that’s Mineral did LifeYield marketing, and it did so well. So I thought I’d just originally met.

Kim Mackrill: That’s right. Yeah, we flew to Boston and had great conversations with your team. And we were really enjoying what we were doing there and also had started building our own product at the same time, that won a couple of awards, just thinking about how financial advisors could demonstrate their value to their clients with client onboarding, because it was a pain for us when we were working with our own advisor. And we wanted to simplify that and make it accessible for advisors. We were purchased by Carson Group in 2018. And our entire crew folded into that firm. So that was an aqua hire situation. And we were there for a couple of years. Jed almost three, I guess. And then we are back out on our own now and trying to solve a problem of integration for the financial world.

Jack Sharry: That’s great. So I’ve been a big fan of the two of these and Jud will talk about what they’re working on now. But meeting them along the way just we learned a whole lot about how to communicate including by the way it should also highlight this podcast came about as a result of Kim and Judd suggesting it would be good thing and it’s been way beyond our wildest imagining in terms of the success and effectiveness so thanks for that. So Jud, when he when he talked a little bit about some new businesses, you got a bunch of things going on very exciting stuff. So when he talks about what you got both are working on present.

Jud Mackrill: Yeah, I think presently the problems we’re really going after are the problems that I’ve found just persisted inside of our industry. And when we looked at Jack, I think you and I, we were having breakfast in New York one day, talking about this a while ago, and just the the difficulties that particularly enterprise companies have to integrate technology. And it was, it’s stuck in my mind. Because, you know, I experienced that when I was at Orion overseeing onboarding, or even marketing and product design sort of things. It’s great to have these solutions. But how is it going to work in a much more complex organization? And as we were kind of looking at what do we want to do with our next chapter here? How do we met want to make a big impact we we hooked up with a friend of ours, we’ve known for quite a while, who’s been working on a product that he’s spent at least three plus years building to help rapidly integrate technology into a singular vertically integrated experience. So if you have a CRM, or you have a portfolio accounting, or you have a really innovative technology, like LifeYield, it’s great that you know, you walk through the supermarket and you put all these things in your cart. But going home and making that recipe is a little bit more difficult. And we know that especially as a bigger organization, the ability to do that at scale with a lot of engineers, a lot of internal politics, a lot of initiatives. It’s seemingly paralyzing to many organizations. So we look at the technology that really powers mile marker today, it rapidly enables firms to create their own unified API that represents all the different endpoints that they need in their technology stack. So that company now can have their own middleware that power is there technology in really creative, wonderful ways. We’re seeing fun things happen in the insurance carrier space, and enterprise wealth management space.

Jack Sharry: Yeah. Before you move on to that. And you pick this up after my question. But just one of things I observe as you’re describing what you’re describing, because you understand this stuff, Kim understands this stuff, where we all live, frankly, that’s certainly at LifeYield is that maybe comment on this first before you talk about where you see it going from InsureTech and some other spaces that I know you’re working in. But this whole notion of connecting the dots, it’s an easy thing to say, it’s a wonderful notion who doesn’t want that? There’s all these capabilities there. CRM, there’s planning, there’s proposal, there’s ongoing portfolio management, there’s income optimization, there’s all sorts of stuff. And the shift clearly is from a single account orientation to a multi account solutions based Multi Product, multi account orientation, it may be described the role that biomarker plays that you play in terms of connecting those dots, because that clearly is where the industry is going as toward a unified managed household is a term now being used. Describe all that talk about like, it’s easy, you know, it’s not so maybe describe what you’re doing and why.

Jud Mackrill: They’re really key trends that are happening right now unified manage household is the way that you need to be structured to be able to effectively manage the entire client’s financial journey, whether they are an insurer insurance provider, or investment bank or an RIA, you need to be thinking holistically across the client’s experience. And, and the only way to do that is to either choose technology that’s doing that first. But we know that the most powerful technology generally is not structured that way. So we have to help those companies and help the companies that are more sophisticated are building their own solutions on top of them, be able to then represent that story to the retail client. And there’s no better way than to use this API architecture, where you’re, you’re able to choose the best functions and features and data across all the different technology you have. Because many of these people have API’s, or you know, even power are starting to power API’s forcing these companies where they’re finding they’re lacking here, because we can rapidly create that.

Jack Sharry: Keep us I can have you join in on this conversation, because it’s one thing to connect it, that middleware, back office function, connecting the dots, all that good stuff. But you also have to have a client experience. So maybe talk about what Jud’s talking about in terms of what happens behind the scenes. We’ll come back to that Jud because I know you’re doing a lot more there but also want to bring in the user experience as well. Because that’s, that’s your that’s your jam, right?

Jud Mackrill: It kind of is. Yeah, that’s where I’ve been buttering everyone’s bread for a little while just trying to help people understand that. If you have information, it has to be served to the end user client, and even to the advisor in a way that is digestible in a way that they can understand what the next best action truly is. And right now, all of the silos of data that are sitting in Side of Enterprise level firms. That’s not helping anybody understand what’s really going on. And you watch firms struggle to even know what should we be doing, what’s the, what’s the greatest value add to our team, because they can’t understand what the data is telling them, they have these different siloed pieces of information that are contradictory, that don’t seem to be delivering any kind of value to them. And there is a path forward, one of the best parts about mile marker is that we’re taking on prem data and spinning it up into the cloud, so that people can actually see what’s going on. So that it’s not just sitting in a server room somewhere. And it requires, you know, 14 phone calls and 45 emails before you get a CSV file that then you actually can’t process either. So our goal is really to help the user interface change, because right now we’re at spreadsheets. And as much as we all want to go talk about AI and where the future is. The truth is that most of the information that we have that could power API is still too broken up too siloed. And until we get that data into central repositories, and then create API’s that are going to go both backwards and forwards, we aren’t going to be able to help people understand what they need to be doing. Once we have that information in a way that we can actually process it, then it’s quite simple for us to say, what are you trying to do with this data? What do you need people to understand? What are the processes that you are all there doing manually now, we can automate those and create user interfaces around them that help drive the right behaviors. So your advisers are doing the right thing. Your clients are informed in the right way. And they want to take the next action that makes the most sense for them, and drives value for them, and helps them understand your value as the advisor.

Jack Sharry: This is where bridges between your expertise Kim and your expertise judge and not that you guys don’t have as significant overlap and on both ends. But one of the things that occurred to me having created a scoring mechanism around taxes for LifeYield, what we found is that when you can quantify the benefit, then it makes sense. Oh, you mean, I can have a third more money over time. Through this qualification process. You can see the number, it’s huge, we had Ernst and Young, validate that it’s real through our methodology. But the thing that occurred to me we started hearing this few years ago, we started hearing this next best action thing, well, you can’t determine the next best action unless you quantify the benefit of potential actions. Otherwise, how would you know what the next best action is? So maybe I’m not sure either or both of you want to comment on that. That notion is what you just described, Kim is that the user experience like leads to the next best action, least our experience suggests that you got to quantify that benefit. So then you can make the trade or the set up the Roth IRA or do the plan or in other words, there’s a series of events that need to happen in sequence, so that you can get that next best action over time. So I’ll toss it up to either both of you to comment on that.

Jud Mackrill: I think it’s becoming more and more clear every day that the future of our industry is quite different from the staff and the technology that we’ve had historically, you’re gonna see a lot more people focusing on behavioral on the speed heroes, I mean, a decade of advancement already, but it’s still dramatically underserved. And then data science is happening more, you know, it’s happened.

Jack Sharry: When you say behavioral did describe that a little more, because you and I know what that means. But this might be new for someone who are listening.

Jud Mackrill: I mean, I think it’s understanding the behavioral activities of clients whether or not they’re staying on your plan or, you know, whatever whatever’s happening, what’s the psychology behind choice around their wealth, whether it’s long term or short term or day to day spending? How are we understanding and assuming and building based on those assumptions, the right experience for the client? And understanding that I think we were coming out of this monolithic aspirational world where a lot of financial services technology was seeking to deliver on like the whole of everything. And now we’re seeing now that realistically, you can only ask somebody something, you know, it’s very specific, and it has to be relative to the whole and the knitting of all of that takes data science, it takes engineering, it takes a ton of empathy in terms of how you’re building delivering that technology. There’s so much that’s more in the kind of, I think Eric Clarke and I were talking about this a couple months ago. He’s like, I think the future of this space is liberal arts. You know, like all those sorts of things where you have psychology and liberal arts, and then art itself, design and things like that, that are I think you’d be putting that higher. And the list of prioritizations, you know, as an enterprise, if I seek to transcend the future.

Jack Sharry: Hence the success of your partnership life and business is. I have a hunch that Kim was the liberal arts major and Jud, True, but it’s close. That you’re the you’re the math geek. I know you have different backgrounds of what I just said. But it’s really that complimentary nature of understanding human behavior, and then translating that into action, which required some math. They get that right. That was standing.

Jud Mackrill: Yeah, I think I think it’s decently fair. We’re both pretty are both pretty into the liberal arts, I think through both of ours but he also never got fired when he was in those spreadsheets. He did a pretty good job. So yeah.

Jack Sharry: Well, actually, it’s interesting. My colleague, and one of the founders of LifeYield, Paul Samuelson, his dad was the Nobel laureate, he, I think he majored in English, but he got a PhD in some kind of advanced economics and an MBA. So he’s actually he writes, are all of our algorithms. He’s got the math thing, but he’s also got the liberal arts things. So it’s, you need both. And that’s really the thing we’re saying, maybe Kim, you could comment on this. One of things we’re seeing across the industry is this behavioral aspects. I’ve had conversations with Daniel Crosby, Michael Liersch, both of whom are PhDs in behavioral economics that are important, playing important roles and building platforms. It seems to need to strike that balance between the sort of the liberal arts aspect, the English and psychology stuff, as well as the numbers stuff. Maybe Kim, if you’d comment on that, where you where that is where that’s going.

Kim Mackrill: Yeah, I think, you know, one of the things that it’s easiest to think through, like, how is behavioral psychology affecting platforms that are being built or applications? If you just think about a Notification Center alone? Like what actually will drive someone to take action? Is that putting a little red number up on a bell in the screen? Well, how many little red numbers before you start ignoring it? Like notifications are fantastic, but are we going to notify them about everything that needs action? Or is it just the most important piece? So really thinking through like, What can someone actually digest as a user? What can they think through and then take action on right away, and then making sure that we are synchronizing that with what actually needs to get done and never overwhelming a user? You know, Jud was talking about that idea of looking at an entire plan versus breaking things down into bite sized pieces. That’s what tech should be helping people do?

Jack Sharry: And could you break up that user because it’s both the client and the advisor? And I know you’ve done a lot of work on client and advisor portals talk a little bit more about that, because it’s, well, the math is fundamental. And what drives that suggestion, or next best action? or what have you been talking about that? And what you’ve learned is you’ve done that, in prior homes around addressing both both sides of that equation.

Kim Mackrill: It’s pretty important, I think, yeah, I think it’s really around the advisor process. And so often, you see, you know, show me your onboarding process. And they’re all generally similar, but they have specific nuance to the individual advisor or the individual firm. And you watch people struggle with completing the process quite a bit, you know, everyone knows that we’re going to get paid generally, once those assets move. So that’s really, that piece becomes a linchpin instead of the process. And oftentimes, you will see a team sort of walk away from the process once assets have moved or begun moving, and they will abandon the pieces that actually drive value to their clients, as soon as the assets are in motion. And we recognize that that is the least desirable outcome for the team for the client. Everybody needs to stay on target and stay focused on really completing the process that is oftentimes just aspirational. That’s not just true in onboarding, but it’s also true in client maintenance. Is the experience you’re creating for your clients exceptional. Is it the kind of thing that when your client walks away from dealing with your team, they say, that was so great, I want to tell my friends about it. If it’s not, then don’t you shouldn’t be expecting referrals asking for referrals, when you have subpar experiences is very difficult. The best experiences naturally lead to referrals and advisors following through on the processes that they know will be successful is what tech should be enabling. It should you know an advisor walks into their desk in the morning, is it just a bunch of notifications in their email and then four or other different programs and they’ve got tab fatigue before 9am. If that’s the case, you’re not going to get the best outcome for your clients, and you’re not having the best experience for you at work either. So we really want, you know, a lot of value add all the way across the board with everybody who’s touching those pieces.

Jack Sharry: So just talk a little bit more about what under what underpins what Kim was just talking about. She has, in my view, the fun stuff of how do you engage with a client? How do you engage with an advisor? How do you enable them both to have or empower them, if you will, to have a better stronger relationship, better outcomes, all that good stuff. So you have the guts of the operation, largely in your purview, talk a little about that not only what you’re doing with wealth management firms, RIAs, but also I know you’re doing a lot of work with asset managers with insurance companies, all trying to get the process that underlies what Kim has been describing. So that’s better, faster, cheaper, all that sort of stuff, a better outcome for all. So maybe talk a little bit about some of the work you’re doing with some of the folks that generally speaking know who you’re working with.

Jud Mackrill: I think if you think about what advantages you have today, starting a technology company, or you know, a technology driven wealth management company, versus you know, somebody that’s been around for a decade or far longer, you have extraordinary advantage today in the ability to build a new, new, more modern tech stack from having your own API, this modern, you’re running an arrest, sort of fashion versus you know, soap or something prior, and then data warehouse singing, all the kind of efficiencies that come with that, the thing that we are really seeking to power is the ability for firms to not forget their stack. But to modernize it without having to replace it, the cost of replacement and the time and the politicking of all of that is not anything that anybody wants to go through. And many people just don’t, but you need to improve what you’re delivering. And you need to modernize it in a rapid way. And you need to have it be subjective to you. Because the stack of technology, the choices you’re making today will not be the same as your competitor or your peers or your you know, whoever else, you have to work with the constraints you’ve been given. So what we’re enabling is for sophisticated companies to be able to add data warehousing and a modern way that’s efficient. And then also just cloud enabling their business through an API that and synchronization software that allows them to have something that’s fast, that’s modern and sufficient. And it’s minimalistic, because I think a lot of times we throw a kitchen sink at a user, and guess what, they’re never coming back. You know, if you think about the most modern experiences that are available today that have the most users, folks I’ve known and watch grow up in this space through the design team at acorns, you know, for example, you look at their technology, it’s very minimalist, it’s not giving a lot of data, it’s giving the necessary data. And it’s giving a wonderful experience to the user, guess what they have, I don’t even know maybe seven figures worth of users with that business. And so that’s the secret I see is just the ability to like rethink it and build and and create modern data flows. Even if you’re not a UI user interface, maybe you’re just taking your carrier data and you want it to be more multiple, that’s a very real scenario we’re working through.

Jack Sharry: Yeah, and for our audience’s better understanding of what we’re describing here, I’ll give you an example. What we see anyway, among wealth management firms. So it starts with data. Typically, that means data aggregation. So you pull all the data from all different sources. And there’s all sorts of different bases for those different sources, that feeds into some kind of planning tool, typically, if it’s done well. And then there’s assumptions and Monte Carlo is and all sorts of stuff that has different data sources and assumptions and all that kind of stuff. At some point, you should not only do asset allocation, or any kind of risk management that you might do. And again, different risk tools have different methodologies, whether it’s called Hidden levers, or Aladdin or Riskalyze, they all have different. And so at some point from an advisor, I’m going to pick what I like, and then I’m gonna expect the company to integrate with the rest. So I have to manage risk. And I also have to manage tax. And it should be noted that if you want to improve outcome beyond the market, which my experience shows that no one beats the market over time, but that said, that’s cost risk and tax, those are how you beat them. That’s how you get a better outcome. If you reduce your cost. If you manage the tax and you minimize the risk, you have a better outcome and all the above needs to be quantified. So it’s asset allocation asset location, it’s ongoing management, it’s any kind of transition as accounts get consolidated. Its gain loss harvesting over time. Its its asset location over time. That’s household level rebalancing over time as market events or life circumstances change. Then its income the optimal sequence of withdrawal that should include Social Security and annuities and qualified non qualified accounts them all that what I just described is really hard. Maybe Jud, if you just put a capstone on, on that just, that’s what you deal with this is helping people have that sort of flow of data. That translates into a user experience that Kim’s been describing, maybe talk about the challenge of that. And the role you guys play in helping firms figure that all that out.

Jud Mackrill: I think you just represented about 300 people, and all that technology for the average firm, and all those different things that you need to do to tie that together. So that’s just the human capital side of it. How do you do the actual technology output, we see a great opportunity to help unify a team to say, let’s just set the data aside right now. Okay, let’s assume that we can get all this data because that’s what the whole, you know, core assumption thesis a mile marker is let’s, let’s help you achieve that. But then let’s think as a team about the experience empathize with the with the client, and let’s just say, Kim’s the client here, and let’s design something for her that meets her needs based on her objectives, based on her tax scenarios. And let’s think about that, as an organization, prototype that use really great design standards and things like that, but work backwards then, and to now a unified API, and an a data model that allows you to achieve that, that is really the future of how organizations are doing it. Teams like Morgan Stanley, and folks like that have a huge head start and great staff around that. But if you’re elsewhere in the industry, and you understand we don’t have this this is the path is this, you have to really start with empathy designed for the user, build the data model, and then deliver it because the future is far more complex. The freshmen did a panel for his next chapter organization a couple of weeks ago, and obviously not sure when this will air but I did this panel with our friend, Steve. And you know, my whole thing was, it’s the, you know, what’s the disturbing facts around financial, the future of financial advice, it’s really disturbing, because it’s actually not easier. Everybody wants to assume, Oh, it’s getting more efficient, my life’s gonna be coming more like the iPhone, you’ve not seen financial services in reality, because what we’re realizing is there’s more and more opportunity to optimize for the client. And the firm’s that are going to win long term are those that are actually going to operationalize that. And so if we can help people, even a fraction of the industry and prove that the impact is well beyond our lives, which is pretty cool to see just the opportunity that we that Kim and I get with our team to be able to partake in that success for the industry. So we’re excited about what that will be.

Jack Sharry: Great. Well, this has been fun, and I keep talking, but try to keep our show to half an hour. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna skip ahead here a little bit we’ve talked about so much, and it’s so important and Kim maybe you can kick it off and just weigh in. But what are some key takeaways that you all would like to share with our audience around where you are and where we see the world going?

Kim Mackrill: Yeah, I think really, the point of everything we’re doing is to bring transparency to processes. And if you aren’t clear on what your processes, you got to get clear. And it’s, it’s pretty common that when we’re talking to people, inside of executive teams, even that there’s a lot of confusion around what the actual processes, you ask for people, you get four different answers. And if I could go into every, every firm in America and just say, hey, write down your process, document it, figure out what you are actually doing here, and put a pen to paper and get clear around it. Once you have that, then you can start looking for the data to get transparent around what’s actually going on. And then you can think about whether or not you even need a user interface, you probably already have everything you need. It’s just poorly talking to each other. So really process transparency, and then the user interface, everyone, I get to do the fun stuff where I’m building beautiful things. But the truth is that you need to know what you’re building before you think about what it looks like. So transparency for your process is really the key to owning your own future.

Jack Sharry: Good. Anything to add on key takeaways from our discussion?

Jud Mackrill: I think the key takeaways I would say in addition, addition to process is progress. You need to be making progress and you need to understand you know, where you’re pedaling your bike, you know, ultimately the future has, you know, a unified managed household as the structural unifier. I totally believe that and you know, your most people are not there. I would say 80% or more of the market is not close to that yet. So if you’re pointing your bike in that direction, you have to take a forward pedal every day. had to make some progress to go up this hill, because it’s not easy. There’s going to be a lot of obstacles, but you need to really, as an organization, set your sights on that and start understanding, there’s some key things like what is my strategy with data? Like, do I have a data strategy today? What choices Am I making in terms of personnel and process and in the surroundings of that, that will inform our ability to get to this actual vision that ultimately is being built to cater to the needs of the Unified manage household and the complexities of that that family, individual company, whatever that would be. And I think that’s really the future and just make that progress, follow a process to find that process, and really keep looking to make sure that you’re understanding things clearly. And that you’re sharing that vision downward inside your organization. I think that’s really the secret to progress in and transcending the future of financial advice.

Jack Sharry: Yeah, and I’m gonna just add something to what both of you just shared. And what we find at LifeYield is with every client, UMH is the end game. That’s the goal, the objective. And as we highlight, and we’ve just learned the hard way, because we think we’re the only firm has been at the table to actually build a semblance of a unified managed house. So doing it over the past five years, you just start with one thing, just to your point, just take that pedal, just one thing, do one thing, well do that, and then do the second thing. And then the third thing, don’t boil the ocean, don’t try to do it all at once. You can’t, it’s too hard. It’s too complex. But to your earlier point, both of you who have made this point have a clearer understanding of where you’re trying to get. I think it starts with user experience. Actually, that’s sort of typically, at least in my experience, the last thing that’s addressed. And it’s not that that isn’t important and connecting dots, you got to do that, too. But what’s the objective? What do you want that client and advisor experience and probably the advisor experience is more important to because you can get that right, they’ll display or present to the client. So you got to do both, and they look largely the same, but you don’t really have to keep in mind that unless the advisor presents it, it’s not gonna get heard. So it’s the old tree in the forest. There’s some analogy there. And that event, pointed out is that you really got to make it really simple and attractive. And also enjoyed I know you work on this day to day, but you have to connect the dots in a way where it so much happens. I don’t wanna say automatically, but effectively, it’s automatic that that’s just what’s presented his the next best thing to do and why that’s why that’s important. So, but we’re, we’re getting away over time. So I’m gonna I’m gonna stop there. And one final question before we close. This has been a lot of fun as always, when I talk to you guys. So we do this each week with our guests, and we ask them what’s something interesting or unique you do outside of work that people may or may not know? And would find interesting. So Kim, you want to kick it off?

Kim Mackrill: Yeah, I’m not sure there’s too much that’s interesting outside of work, but unique. I’m probably maybe for the last like 10 years I’ve been on a quest to discover the best fries in every city. And french fries are really a passion of mine. If your love that you’re showing up somewhere and you need a french fry recommendation, I can probably help you in a number of cities around the country. But we’re still we’re in Charleston, South Carolina now and we’re still searching for the best french fries here. So if anyone’s got any tips around that, they can find me on Twitter.

Jack Sharry: I need to come visit so you can also show me the where the best grits are. I’ve had grits on my table. Yeah, it’s okay. Come join us. I’ll make them for you.

Jud Mackrill: Absolutely. Man, I think interesting thing for me is I’m a failed saltwater fisherman and boat captain so I’m enjoying the water and taking our kids out and friends and things like that just really enjoying that sort of aspect of our life and having fun so I think we definitely need to host you and your better half down here sometimes yak and yes, we’ll have a good time. But yeah, that’s it’s been a good coming out of the pandemic for me for our audience.

Jack Sharry: You move from Omaha to Charleston, maybe just a quick highlight. That’s quite a quite a shift. And I know, I think family joined you in the mood.

Jud Mackrill: And yeah, it was it was really good timing. Kim’s folks where her mom had just retired from her bank role and were able to kind of move down as a team and they live in the same area as us and our kids are pretty much I mean, her parents are like essential workers, for our family for us to operate businesses the way that we do and we have to fight them for who’s gonna take the tax deduction. Honestly, they’re, they’re over there.

Jack Sharry: Good for them. Good for all of them.

Kim Mackrill: It’s good for everyone.

Jud Mackrill: So we’ve all been enjoying the change, and it’s been good for everybody.

Jack Sharry: I think that’s great. So Thanks, Kim and Jud. As always, I’ve enjoyed our conversation and look forward to The next which I know will probably happen sooner than later. If you’ve enjoyed our podcasts, please rate review and subscribe and or share what we’re doing here on WealthTech on Deck. We have a we’re up to 1800 downloads and 1100 listeners. So it’s working so. And we have a bunch of interesting guests lined up for the next few weeks. So check those out. We’ll be sending out publications. If you’re not on our mailing list at LifeYield, by all means, please, please do so we’d love to share what we’re doing here. Lots of fun and interesting stuff. So. So check us out. We’re available wherever you get your podcasts. And thanks, Kim, Jud, this has been a real pleasure. I’ve enjoyed it.

Kim Mackrill: Thank you.

Jud Mackrill: Thank you, Jack.